Kraken for Modo

Hi I had a quick question now that kraken is integrated into fabric more and using more and more kl nodes, will it be possible to see a modo builder for it soon?

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  • malbrechtmalbrecht Fabric for Houdini Posts: 752 ✭✭✭

    I doubt that (I cannot speak for Fabric, obviously). Because:

    • drawing to viewport in modo is not available for Fabric/modo
    • Fabric/modo development seems frozen
    • Fabric development is aiming at replacing the current viewport by RTR2 in the near future, so it is even more unlikely that much happens in this respect around modo
    • tool handling/manipulation in a Fabric Canvas port inside modo is not available (or at least not fully functioning)
    • automatic port creation (which you would need to pipe in/out the rig to modo) is not available in Fabric/modo

    What you can do is: Build your rig using the Kraken application or inside a Fabric-Canvas instance, then create the in- and out-ports as channel modifiers in modo. That way you can use the rig in modo, but weighting/capturing would still be a pure modo thing AND you would probably leave deformation in modo (because Fabric currently only outputs procedural geometry to modo, which isn't helpful in an animation pipeline at all). So "in-the-lab" is possible, but "real-world": Not with the current state the modo implementation is frozen at.

    Marc


    Marc Albrecht - marc-albrecht.de - does things.

  • EricTEricT Administrator, Moderator, Fabric Employee Posts: 305 admin

    Hi @Ahmed_Barakat,

    We currently don't have plans to develop Kraken for Modo as we haven't seen much interest in Fabric for Modo in general. We need the demand to justify the work.

    Eric Thivierge
    Kraken Developer
    Kraken Rigging Framework

  • AlexanderMAlexanderM Posts: 132 ✭✭

    we haven't seen much interest in Fabric for Modo in general

    Oh, it's not glad, I was planning someday to get away from Maya but to continue to use Fabric, Modo node system are more nice and user friendly, at least they do not crash the program every times (just import high poly mesh into Maya and try to expand this shape node. But big thanks to Fabric, now I am using only Fabric mesh-importers-asset-nodes, it helps to avoid maya's "a million trash-ports" trouble). But I understand this strategy, Modo is realy much less popular

    Let's say NO to Autodesk®Fabric®

  • malbrechtmalbrecht Fabric for Houdini Posts: 752 ✭✭✭

    Marc slaps himself on the fingers, trying to avoid any comment on "modo" and "not crashing".
    Marc has left modo for its constant, CONSTANT crashing in just about everything one can imagine to do in it, except for, maybe, modelling.
    Marc shuts up now.


    Marc Albrecht - marc-albrecht.de - does things.

  • AlexanderMAlexanderM Posts: 132 ✭✭

    )) If you have left Modo, what is your basic package now?

    Let's say NO to Autodesk®Fabric®

  • malbrechtmalbrecht Fabric for Houdini Posts: 752 ✭✭✭

    what is your basic package now?

    I am still waiting for Fabric's rendering integration (I'm tempted to try to get some pipeline with Redshift working myself, if only I had time to trial and error my way through Kludge), then I'd be happy to do a lot more in Fabric.
    Right now I am using Houdini. Since I have no grain of art in my venes, I don't really need a modelling application (and Houdini's modelling is getting better with every other release). But mainly I am after stability, reliability, performance - that I do not get from modo, but I do get it from H.

    Fabric is my go-to-tool for problem-solving of almost any kind. Being able to SEE what your ideas turn into is a great help. Being able to experiment with approaches and figuring out the best solution is "my game" and here Fabric "outperforms" Houdini, where you are very much tied into a closed universe of workflows and don't get much freedom to "do it your way".

    I'd love to have some "all in one" application for visualization, but ever since software development management decided that software has to be buggy, just to fulfill that old fairy tale of "every software has bugs" (so we create bugs to keep the universe happy), I feel like going back to using an ASCII editor and DVB-Trace. :-)

    Marc


    Marc Albrecht - marc-albrecht.de - does things.

  • AlexanderMAlexanderM Posts: 132 ✭✭
    edited January 24

    I agree with you, Houdini is nice at the moment. I just want to add that Houdini has no risk of being bought by Autodesk and become a donor for Maya, as it happened with Softimage, Naiad and Arnold.

    I am still waiting for Fabric's rendering integration

    What do you think about the manipulators, do you need it?

    Let's say NO to Autodesk®Fabric®

  • scaronscaron Fabric for Houdini Posts: 171

    @malbrecht said:
    I am still waiting for Fabric's rendering integration (I'm tempted to try to get some pipeline with Redshift working myself, if only I had time to trial and error my way through Kludge), then I'd be happy to do a lot more in Fabric.

    does Redshift have a public API yet?

  • malbrechtmalbrecht Fabric for Houdini Posts: 752 ✭✭✭

    Personally I doubt that SideFX gets bought by Autodesk, but even if that happens ... right now I am happy enough with what H is offering :) It's not that I would refuse to buy into an Autodesk rental any more. That is one of the major points I learned from modo: Keeping up with shortcomings of the "dirty little revolutionair" is stupid if you just need to get a job done.

    What do you think about the manipulators, do you need it?

    If by "manipulators" you mean "modelling tools": I'd say that you can create most basic modelling tools in Fabric right now, if you really need to. But I wouldn't consider Fabric a "modeller", I'd use it for scene composition, rigging, animation and rendering (the last bit is the main part that's missing, because I find the current procedure of outputting materials/textures to tedious).

    Since this topic is about rigging/Kraken in modo: I do think that it would be possible to get Kraken running in modo. Like I said before, I don't see much sense in doing that, because you'd either use channel modifiers and then have modo do the deformation (and we all know where that ends ... crash!) OR you output a procedural object and that has too many issues with rendering and interaction with "real" objects. So even bringing "Kraken into modo" doesn't solve the problem of the whole Fabric/modo workflow probably not working out the way we'd need it for rigging/animation. We would need a third "plugin" type for modo that acts as a DEFORMER, not a procedural item and not a channel modifier.
    The way syFlex is integrated in modo comes to mind - but even that has some SERIOUS issues that rendered it not applicable to a real-world usecase for me (Trollbridge project).

    @scaron

    does Redshift have a public API yet?

    I don't think so. I could try using the command line tool, doing constant on-the-fly exports, create my own little preview app etc. But that's all too much work. And if RTR2 is coming anyway (I don't know what it will provide), a real "integration" into Fabric would be preferable ...

    Marc


    Marc Albrecht - marc-albrecht.de - does things.

  • scaronscaron Fabric for Houdini Posts: 171

    @malbrecht said:
    I don't think so. I could try using the command line tool, doing constant on-the-fly exports, create my own little preview app etc. But that's all too much work. And if RTR2 is coming anyway (I don't know what it will provide), a real "integration" into Fabric would be preferable ...

    exactly, all too much work for a less than ideal integration. once they put out a public API, then binding to KL is going to be straightforward.

  • AlexanderMAlexanderM Posts: 132 ✭✭

    If by "manipulators" you mean "modelling tools"

    I mean the ability to interactively move objects in scene (the current implementation is not useful)

    Let's say NO to Autodesk®Fabric®

  • malbrechtmalbrecht Fabric for Houdini Posts: 752 ✭✭✭

    I mean the ability to interactively move objects in scene

    OK, yes, there's a bit to be done, but I understand that Fabric dev is actually working on that anyway. This is, unfortunately for us "community", one of the things quite unclear to me. Where are going to with Fabric, what "major break through features" are coming up within short time, does it make sense to wait ...

    Marc


    Marc Albrecht - marc-albrecht.de - does things.

  • scaronscaron Fabric for Houdini Posts: 171

    @AlexanderM said:
    I mean the ability to interactively move objects in scene (the current implementation is not useful)

    When was the last time you tried it? I believe the Manipulation extension which was to be packaged with RTR2 was 'backported' already. The Manipulation extension has a 'legacy' folder, so I am assuming the other files are new.

  • AhmidouAhmidou Posts: 179 ✭✭

    I wouldn't use the new manipulation system yet, it seems it's going to evolve a bit more.

  • AlexanderMAlexanderM Posts: 132 ✭✭

    When was the last time you tried it?

    It was a long time ago. I'm talking about the first version of the manipulators, the second is not available to me

    Let's say NO to Autodesk®Fabric®

  • scaronscaron Fabric for Houdini Posts: 171

    @AlexanderM said:
    the second is not available to me

    Are you sure? I was pretty sure it was in 2.4, take a look. But since Ahmidou, is saying not to touch it I would probably only dip your toe in and not rely on it too much?

  • EricTEricT Administrator, Moderator, Fabric Employee Posts: 305 admin

    Hey all,

    The recent manipulator work that is in the recent releases is work from SceneHub and won't function outside of it unfortunately. However we are working on a new manipulation framework that will appear in a future release. This work has not been shared yet as it is still too early. We'll update everyone when that evolves enough and when it appears in the daily builds.

    Stay tuned.

    Eric Thivierge
    Kraken Developer
    Kraken Rigging Framework

  • scaronscaron Fabric for Houdini Posts: 171

    Well there ya go!

  • Ahmed_BarakatAhmed_Barakat Posts: 4

    a bit sad to hear this, originally am a Softimage user (last 4 years was mainly doing vfx supervision and vfx production so wasn't using the software myself but got bored and want to make things again) , and was looking for a good replacement to soft, which is something that doesn't exist, tried every software out there, so the combo that I thought will work nicely with me is fabric+modo, so started looking into modo haven't used it in any production yet, just fooling around following tutorials and testing workflows haven't tested it yet with fabric, saw the new fabric release and was excited about the Kraken integration then discovered it still works only in maya and soft and max was added, currently am on macos and considering Linux as I hate windows.

  • Ahmed_BarakatAhmed_Barakat Posts: 4

    @malbrecht may I ask what was the latest modo version you used?, its hard for me to judge its stability yet

  • Ahmed_BarakatAhmed_Barakat Posts: 4

    and thanks @scaron and @EricT for you replies and efforts nice to see those names again :), was a long time member of the xsibase ani_maniac was my handle there :) .

  • malbrechtmalbrecht Fabric for Houdini Posts: 752 ✭✭✭

    may I ask what was the latest modo version you used?

    Since modo representatives have told potential customers that people on forums who critizice modo should not be listened to (read: are lying), I won't go into detail in public here, but I'll send you a private response here on the forum.

    Marc


    Marc Albrecht - marc-albrecht.de - does things.

  • scaronscaron Fabric for Houdini Posts: 171

    @Ahmed_Barakat small world, good to see ya

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